Tango Blue by Crown Lynn

Thanks, but I did a "cook & serve" search on trademe and found those listings.... in all sorts of places -
vases - antiques and collectables lolz
I was very disappointed at the colour of the Blue Tango saucer!
It is such a bland blue compared to the delightful blue on the mugs .....
or is this just a trick of cyber space?
I'm going to have to reassess the numbers on the database that I have for Blue Tango ...
It's all a learning curve for me!

I'm wondering if the handpainted and the transfer Blue Tango had different numbers......?
The records I have start from either 1965 or 1966 as far as I can tell.
The only mention of Tourist Hotel Corporation are the T/Blue 945 and Red 960 and there are many entries. Val Monk on page 153 says that in 1966 Blue Tango was adapted for Tourist Hotels.
Would love to get this nutted out
ps.... the Deco number for Danzig is 935.

My Tango transfer cup has the same number (albeit in black not green) as the hand-painted, likewise with the numbers for hand-painted and transfer Mogambo and Image. My other Tango items are unnumbered. (I'll check the Red Tango oven dishes next week in Auckland.)

The Danzig is clearly a later number corresponding with the later Tango date.

I think they may have reviewed numbers at a later stage.

As a suggestion would be that the numbering was updated, dropping off items no longer in production, such as Mogambo and updating the likes of Tango.

It could also be an indication of who Crown Lynn were making them for.

Yet another thought is that Tango had to be redesigned for a radial pattern and the pattern on the cups is essentially a continuous linear band.

Hello. I have some blue tango espresso cups and saucers (the small ones) and the mustard pot in blue (with blue lid). Is that what it is? A mustard pot? I wasn't sure if it was a salt pot but it looks just like Jeremy's red one above.

I think I've worked this out now ....
Patterns on vitrified ware appear to have a different number to the same pattern on other ware.
The first Crown Lynn records for Tango Blue and Tango Red show -
Gib Pat 945 Tourist Hotel Corp Blue
Gib Pat 960 Tourist Hotel Corp Por. Red
These are from circa 1964/6 and will be the Hotel Vitrified ware.
There are umpteen entries for these two patterns in various formats
e.g. T. Blue & T. Red, even Tango Blue and Red.
All using the same pattern numbers.
Many of the shapes that the patterns were used on are recorded as well.
So these patterns are just like Fantasy vitrified and Blue Garland - same pattern but different names and numbers.

This pattern on normal wares was called Blue Tango Pat.No.423 and on vitrified ware it was called Tango Blue 945......... clear as mud huh?

Ev, I'm just reviewing here.
Is there a pattern name for the Westman Tango design (pictured on page 1) as used on Crown Lynn tableware and cookware?

Much, much, later. To answer my question above the name is Vision.

The ashtray on page one is vitrified and will have the pattern name Tango Blue Pat.No.945

Ev,

Ev wrote:The ashtray on page one is vitrified and will have the pattern name Tango Blue Pat.No.945

I was referring to the Swedisn pattern as reproduced by CL, not Crown Lynn's own Blue Tango. This in my photo comparing pepper and salts.

Oops sorry, now I understand and no we don't seem to have a name for that pattern yet.
I will make a thread for it in the Patterns with No-Names topic and use your photo Jeremy.

Ev.. Is the Tango Blue ashtray at the start of this thread a shape 1614?

I really don't know if it is a 1614 or not Janice. The description just says 'Solid Rim Hotel Ashtray'. There are so many different ashtrays and the descriptions are so quirky that I haven't identified any yet and I'm going to list them all one day so that we can work on them

(A bit of housekeeping here.)

Ev, you wondered about this on page 1:

"Tourist Hotel Corp Por.Red"

For "Por." read "Porphyry".

Wikipedia will help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyry_(geology)

I can see why this was a tricky one. I have the advantage here because I got my geologist badge when I was a Boy Scout, some 43 years ago.

Jeremy I can't find a backstamp for Blue Tango with the number anywhere.
Can you post one please?

This is the green backstamp handpainted can.
The transfer one has the same stamp in black.

Note: this is 423 (not 432). Same on both.

Here it is:

Thanks Jeremy, I will add that photo to the Patterns Gallery.
I think Cook & Serve is a type of vitrified ware, so that still leaves the Tango Blue 945 to be sorted out ....?

Cook & Serve is vitrified.

You wrote further above about Tango Blue 945.
A clear answer from the records would be good: is 945 called Blue Tango or Tango Blue?

I got the impression from above that the Blue Tango produced for THC and/or Gibpat was 945 (and the Red Tango 960).

From this post on the first page:
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t927-tango-blue-by-crown-lynn#2919

For what it's worth I also offered the suggestion (worded differently) that 423 may be the pattern for uprights and 945 the pattern for flats. Just a suggestion as maybe it doesn't work for the hand painted coffee pot lid, casserole lids and ramekin lid: as there is no pattern mark on those pieces we can't know without supporting paperwork.

I don't think the number difference is about handpainted vs transfer as both cans have the same number.

945 is called Tango Blue in the records.
I have a bee in my bonnet about this pattern being vitrified as it was supplied to the Tourist Hotel Corporation. I will have to wait for Janice's thoughts as she has tricks up her sleeve for retrieving info, as I don't want to be going through all of those Deco Advices right now.

I just had a look at my hand-painted Tango can. It has a very clear mark,
Pat. No. 423.
Blue Tango COOK & SERVE
By Crown Lynn
NEW ZEALAND.

(I see a pic has just popped up in the new pics box)

Maybe the hand painted version is 423?

Ev wrote:Crown Lynn's Decoration Advice Files from the early 1960's record them as this:
Deco.No. 945 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. T/Blue - Gib Pat
Deco.No. 960 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. Red - Gib Pat

So from documents and backstamps we have:

Cook & Serve "Blue Tango" Pat. No. 423
THC/Gibpat "THC Tango Blue" Deco.No 945
THC/Gibpat "THC [Tango/Por.] Red" Deco.No 960

and
Colour Glaze "Tango Blue" d00060
(plus at least one similar blue glaze).

To the best of my knowledge the tango PATTERN appears only on vitrified china, the first three above, whereas the pattern bearing the tango blue name on earthenware refers to COLOUR only, presumably because it was derived from and intended to reproduce the colour of the glaze on the vitrified ware.

That looks like everything covered to me.

Ev, do you have some other expectation?
Am I missing something!

So are you saying Jeremy that just the Cook & Serve is Blue Tango and all of the rest is Tango Blue ...?
I only picked up on this today when I noticed that there was no Blue Tango 423 in the Gallery, but there was Tango Blue 945 and Tango Burgundy/Red.  
It is a revelation to me, as all I see where ever I go it is all called Blue Tango .... yourself included Jeremy.

Hiya
I am adding my blurb! on a side note,,,,
The red is referred to as Maroon and in the newspaper as Burgundy, rather than red.

This bit is correct

ev wrote:Crown Lynn's Decoration Advice Files from the early 1960's record them as this:
Deco.No. 945 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. T/Blue - Gib Pat
Deco.No. 960 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. Red - Gib Pat

and is the lightweight vitrified - the cook N serve I would say is vitrified and the news paper explains it was made in a different way. Maybe that why they have 2 different pattern numbers? Umm I will see what else I can find...

I had Tango Burgundy in the Gallery and changed it to Red so that we would know it, because it is always called Tango Red ...... 'out there' I've changed it back now.

I personally like the description "Por.red" as once you are aware of porphyry it is so apt and distinguishes it from other dark reds, whereas burgundy etc can be vague. I have tested the colour against the dark red of other vit duos, and other dark reds and nothing quite matches.

All I said in my previous post is based on the docs I have seen and the pottery I have seen. The naming of the THC pottery seems to be backwards but I have no idea why.
Besides the particular designs and shapes for different pottery shapes I have not noticed any difference between the transfer on the 423 coffee can and the transfer on the 945 THC wares.

A thought just occurred to me that maybe there is a difference in how the transfer is applied. I know on the demi saucers (lightweight vit series (1966) the transfer is usually bubbled but the Cook Serve cans and other THC are pretty clean.

Until something else turns up I would be inclined just to go with what is presented to us. The immediate difficulty then would be what to use in the gallery as an example of so-called "Tango Blue", a plain piece or a patterned piece. As the references I've seen so far are to THC, then a piece of THC would be a start.

There is yet another question not addressed yet that relates to the can duos: are the plain blue saucers (not just those for Blue Tango, but Sapphire, Focus etc) Tango Blue?

I have no more answers!
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Later ...
Well just one more answer.
Ev, you ask why people, myself included refer to the THC as Blue Tango rather than Tango Blue. 3 part answer: 1) I haven't always had access to the documents, and 2) the pattern appears to be the same on Cook&Serve and THC, 3) the only pieces to bear a pattern name are the Cook&Serve cans.

Thanks, but we have had Tango Blue 945 in the Gallery for many years, the Tango Burgundy 960 was only added last year because nobody had posted a piece of it. There is a record for the Danzig saucer and I must check it out.

on a mission now!!
Narvik pat 754
Narvik cook N serve pat no 790
Although this is Vitrified  Versus  E/W ( I think)
So did crown Lynn have 2 sets of numbers for cook N Serve and E/W.
Will need to research other patterns that use were used for both.
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But in the Blue Tango scenario Tango Blue Cook N serve would be vitrified and THC is lightweight vitrified  ( not quite the same example as Narvik)

The pattern name is different
Cook N serve = Tango Blue Pat No 423
The ones used for the hotel I read was written as = THC Tango Blue Deco no. 945 - so are they saying that the pattern is "Tourist Hotel Corp" Sounds a bit crazy but that is how it is written, along side "Fantasy" "Riviera"
see below...