Tango Blue by Crown Lynn

I really don't know if it is a 1614 or not Janice. The description just says 'Solid Rim Hotel Ashtray'. There are so many different ashtrays and the descriptions are so quirky that I haven't identified any yet and I'm going to list them all one day so that we can work on them

(A bit of housekeeping here.)

Ev, you wondered about this on page 1:

"Tourist Hotel Corp Por.Red"

For "Por." read "Porphyry".

Wikipedia will help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyry_(geology)

I can see why this was a tricky one. I have the advantage here because I got my geologist badge when I was a Boy Scout, some 43 years ago.

Jeremy I can't find a backstamp for Blue Tango with the number anywhere.
Can you post one please?

This is the green backstamp handpainted can.
The transfer one has the same stamp in black.

Note: this is 423 (not 432). Same on both.

Here it is:

Thanks Jeremy, I will add that photo to the Patterns Gallery.
I think Cook & Serve is a type of vitrified ware, so that still leaves the Tango Blue 945 to be sorted out ....?

Cook & Serve is vitrified.

You wrote further above about Tango Blue 945.
A clear answer from the records would be good: is 945 called Blue Tango or Tango Blue?

I got the impression from above that the Blue Tango produced for THC and/or Gibpat was 945 (and the Red Tango 960).

From this post on the first page:
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t927-tango-blue-by-crown-lynn#2919

For what it's worth I also offered the suggestion (worded differently) that 423 may be the pattern for uprights and 945 the pattern for flats. Just a suggestion as maybe it doesn't work for the hand painted coffee pot lid, casserole lids and ramekin lid: as there is no pattern mark on those pieces we can't know without supporting paperwork.

I don't think the number difference is about handpainted vs transfer as both cans have the same number.

945 is called Tango Blue in the records.
I have a bee in my bonnet about this pattern being vitrified as it was supplied to the Tourist Hotel Corporation. I will have to wait for Janice's thoughts as she has tricks up her sleeve for retrieving info, as I don't want to be going through all of those Deco Advices right now.

I just had a look at my hand-painted Tango can. It has a very clear mark,
Pat. No. 423.
Blue Tango COOK & SERVE
By Crown Lynn
NEW ZEALAND.

(I see a pic has just popped up in the new pics box)

Maybe the hand painted version is 423?

Ev wrote:Crown Lynn's Decoration Advice Files from the early 1960's record them as this:
Deco.No. 945 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. T/Blue - Gib Pat
Deco.No. 960 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. Red - Gib Pat

So from documents and backstamps we have:

Cook & Serve "Blue Tango" Pat. No. 423
THC/Gibpat "THC Tango Blue" Deco.No 945
THC/Gibpat "THC [Tango/Por.] Red" Deco.No 960

and
Colour Glaze "Tango Blue" d00060
(plus at least one similar blue glaze).

To the best of my knowledge the tango PATTERN appears only on vitrified china, the first three above, whereas the pattern bearing the tango blue name on earthenware refers to COLOUR only, presumably because it was derived from and intended to reproduce the colour of the glaze on the vitrified ware.

That looks like everything covered to me.

Ev, do you have some other expectation?
Am I missing something!

So are you saying Jeremy that just the Cook & Serve is Blue Tango and all of the rest is Tango Blue ...?
I only picked up on this today when I noticed that there was no Blue Tango 423 in the Gallery, but there was Tango Blue 945 and Tango Burgundy/Red.  
It is a revelation to me, as all I see where ever I go it is all called Blue Tango .... yourself included Jeremy.

Hiya
I am adding my blurb! on a side note,,,,
The red is referred to as Maroon and in the newspaper as Burgundy, rather than red.

This bit is correct

ev wrote:Crown Lynn's Decoration Advice Files from the early 1960's record them as this:
Deco.No. 945 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. T/Blue - Gib Pat
Deco.No. 960 Deco.Name. Tourist Hotel Corp. Red - Gib Pat

and is the lightweight vitrified - the cook N serve I would say is vitrified and the news paper explains it was made in a different way. Maybe that why they have 2 different pattern numbers? Umm I will see what else I can find...

I had Tango Burgundy in the Gallery and changed it to Red so that we would know it, because it is always called Tango Red ...... 'out there' I've changed it back now.

I personally like the description "Por.red" as once you are aware of porphyry it is so apt and distinguishes it from other dark reds, whereas burgundy etc can be vague. I have tested the colour against the dark red of other vit duos, and other dark reds and nothing quite matches.

All I said in my previous post is based on the docs I have seen and the pottery I have seen. The naming of the THC pottery seems to be backwards but I have no idea why.
Besides the particular designs and shapes for different pottery shapes I have not noticed any difference between the transfer on the 423 coffee can and the transfer on the 945 THC wares.

A thought just occurred to me that maybe there is a difference in how the transfer is applied. I know on the demi saucers (lightweight vit series (1966) the transfer is usually bubbled but the Cook Serve cans and other THC are pretty clean.

Until something else turns up I would be inclined just to go with what is presented to us. The immediate difficulty then would be what to use in the gallery as an example of so-called "Tango Blue", a plain piece or a patterned piece. As the references I've seen so far are to THC, then a piece of THC would be a start.

There is yet another question not addressed yet that relates to the can duos: are the plain blue saucers (not just those for Blue Tango, but Sapphire, Focus etc) Tango Blue?

I have no more answers!
----------------------------
Later ...
Well just one more answer.
Ev, you ask why people, myself included refer to the THC as Blue Tango rather than Tango Blue. 3 part answer: 1) I haven't always had access to the documents, and 2) the pattern appears to be the same on Cook&Serve and THC, 3) the only pieces to bear a pattern name are the Cook&Serve cans.

Thanks, but we have had Tango Blue 945 in the Gallery for many years, the Tango Burgundy 960 was only added last year because nobody had posted a piece of it. There is a record for the Danzig saucer and I must check it out.

on a mission now!!
Narvik pat 754
Narvik cook N serve pat no 790
Although this is Vitrified  Versus  E/W ( I think)
So did crown Lynn have 2 sets of numbers for cook N Serve and E/W.
Will need to research other patterns that use were used for both.
----------------------------
But in the Blue Tango scenario Tango Blue Cook N serve would be vitrified and THC is lightweight vitrified  ( not quite the same example as Narvik)

The pattern name is different
Cook N serve = Tango Blue Pat No 423
The ones used for the hotel I read was written as = THC Tango Blue Deco no. 945 - so are they saying that the pattern is "Tourist Hotel Corp" Sounds a bit crazy but that is how it is written, along side "Fantasy" "Riviera"
see below...

Woooo I hadn't picked up on the Narvik having different numbers and we only have one in the Gallery. I still don't have those pages from the Museum Janice, so thank you. Lets hope the Portage records have more resources for this type of thing!

Blue Tango article that may be of interest ... from July 1966

Continuing with the Tango theme, I have just bought a piece of THC Tango Blue which has no Tango "pattern" on it ... like many pieces in the previous post (above).
Could be I'll need to track down one of those big saucers with the pattern on to go with it, unless it's just a plate.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=928078851

I have seen these Tango soup bowls before, one advertised as Red Tango so I asked the seller to show a pic of the inside and it was plain. I anticipate this one will also be plain but nevertheless still correctly described as "Blue Tango"/"Tango Blue".

I said just yesterday that I wasn't buying Tango anymore but this for my "adding colour to the stacks" on the kitchen shelves so it doesn't count! I'll keep buying the bowls in any interesting pattern that turns up.

I'll post a pic to replace the auction link when it arrives, next week I imagine, and check out the eggcups or whatever they are (in the auction pic) too.

---------
17/8/15

My Blue Tango bowl has arrived.


As expected it is plain tango blue and clear glaze. The Gibsons and Paterson 1966 backstamp is entirely consistent with the article above, dated 1966, so despite the absence of lozenge pattern it is, in this instance, still "Blue Tango"

I have also added this and a new photo showing six differently patterned soup bowls in this shape to my "adding interest ..." topic:
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t4261-adding-interest-to-the-stacks-rnzaf-soup-bowls#14947

I picked up three of the vitrified Tango Blue saucers today and I don't have any cups that match that blue. One photo shows the large tulip shape cup and another shows the 3622 or is it the 3624 shape. Are there any photos on here that I can check for this duo please as they will be in colour. This is the first time that I've seen this pattern in an opshop. Bless the opshops for being open again. xxx

Lucky you ! Lol 3624 the stacking cup is shown on some photos but as they were used in a restaurant environment I guess any you mentioned would be acceptable. These days it's getting really hard to find anything exciting in the op shop's.

I had to go out of zone to drop off some Stichbury dishes, so took the opportunity to check out the opshops   There were 3 of these saucers just like new for 3 dollars each so I was delighted.  I found all sorts of lovely things.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here Ev, and what photos you are referring to.
Did you find Tango Blue saucers or Blue Tango saucers?

Do remember that the 4624 hotel stacking saucer was also used for other than the (3622, 3624) hotel stacking cups, well for 3610s at least. I have no idea whether the 3610/4624 combo was ever actually marketed in the Tango patterns though. I do see the 3610 cups pop up on tm now and then in Tango Blue.

There is a Red Tango saucer kicking around on tm that I have always had difficulty placing, and never been concerned enough to check, where the measurement is given as 13.5. I'm thinking hotel stacking but, again, haven't checked the measurement.

I will post a pic and measurements when I get a moment Jeremy.
I haven't had any of these before so I'm trying to catch up with you guys really.

4624 according to the Portage Museum
http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/account/3384/object/488943

Photos and measurement is 138mm across





Can someone show me a vitrified cup in the blue tango colour please?