Jeremy's take on saucer shapes

I have previously written about some of this here:
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t5271-vit-4610-saucer-for-gallery#19733

I have developed a rationale for these decisions but it would take many more pages so instead of boring you with that from the start I am presenting a summary for discussion. This allotting of numbers accounts for all my Crown Lynn vitrified saucers, no mean feat, along with the earthenware saucer I have described elsewhere as "jumbo jumbo". I still have one odd saucer, the shallow 6 inch (150mm) e/w "805" coupe, to find a number for.

Note: Crown Lynn did not necessarily stick with a single pairing of vitrified cup and saucer over time, and not all the pairings they sold were nice fits. Some saucers were paired with multiple cups. Cup shapes where different shaped saucers were later used include 755 (739->4619), 3610 (739->4624, 4619?), 3616 (4615->4619) and 3618 (4610->4619). You may notice a general trend from light weight multiple-use saucer (739) to heavy weight multiple-use (4619).

743 vitrified Hotel saucer.
Paired with 745 small coffee cup and Air New Zealand cups (see photos).
This is one of three lightweight coupe saucers I am proposing as 739, 743, and 4610. 739 is already established as vitrified 805. Portage is silent on 743 and 4610 as is our own gallery.
The 743 is the same diameter as the 739 but it is shallower and has a larger cup well.


Air NZ duo 783/743 TonyK: 743/745 screen grab: Red Tango duo 783/743 me
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t3363-air-new-zealand-dc-8-pattern-is-906

Ev has expressed a hope of finding a 743-745 pairing and I believe this may be it.
I have not seen this duo re-listed since the auction was pulled last year.

744 large earthenware saucer: refer to Portage Ceramics Trust.
http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/account/3384/object/487742/Saucer_-_drive_carefully
http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/account/3384/object/489816/Saucer
Suffice to say I dropped the ball on this one and now wholeheartedly agree with Portage here. It should be noted however that Portage has two sets of measurements for 744, 155/157 x 25/26 (2 examples) AND 153 x 22 (4 examples). I have no idea which cups fit this/these saucer/s but as it/they is/are very wide I am inclining to the breakfast cup shapes 802 and 832. The dates given for the two sizes are from different periods so they may indeed both have the same number. http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/esearch/object?q=744&i=false

I have an example of 744 at 156 x 25 to replace the incorrect pic in the gallery:
This is the saucer I described elsewhere as "jumbo jumbo": https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t5481-unusual-e-w-saucer-shapes-jumbo-jumbo-6-inch-shallow#20651

I now believe that, as the earthenware jumbo cup is dated 1965 (3016, 14.7.65), the earthenware saucer did not exist as a three digit shape, only as the four digit 4017.
(In defence of my mistake, the proportions of OD to cup well are the same in the 744 and 4017 and I was working from a photograph with foreshortening.)


4610 vitrified jumbo saucer, definitions include "lightweight" and "439", no date.
Without my rationalisations this really calls for an act of faith, as, as far as I know I am the only one to post examples of both vit jumbo cup and vit jumbo saucer. Curiously the saucer turns up as the saucer for the 3618 coffee can, but do bear in mind that I acquired the earthenware equivalents, 3023 and 4017, in a boxed set of six (Purple Myrtle on black colour glaze jumbo saucers). The vitrified and earthenware jumbo saucers are a perfect shape match and I believe they come from the same mould (as do the vitrified and earthenware jumbo cups 3613 and 3016).

The vit jumbo cup sits very happily in the well of the 4610
The 4610 vit and 4017 e/w are a perfect shape match.

As is usual with vit and e/w shapes from the same mould the vit is smaller.

The 3618 can was later paired with a 4619 heavy roll edge saucer.


4615 flattish roll edge saucer with wide footring.


Provenance: straight from the factory. Original photos by Val: https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t5265-cup-3616-and-saucer-for-jeremy#19700

I have an example of this pairing in duck egg blue speckle [which have come from separate sources].
[21/4/15: I now also have a matched duo in Reflections pattern, bought together.]

This saucer shape, as others too, was replaced by the ubiquitous 4619 which is already in the gallery: a small diameter heavy roll edge saucer with an integral foot, ie the sides of the coupe form the foot of a hollow-bottomed saucer.

As far as I know there is no earthenware equivalent for the 4619 saucer.

I have some measurements to add yet.