Rattling those cups !!!!

Still working on cup shapes and I've pulled out a heap of shapes from all over the site and will put them here for easy reference .....
Some may be repeated and there are more shapes to add I'm sure.

There is a 3046 mug that goes with Sundowner in my notes.
A listing turned up on a google search showing two mugs the same as No 11 above, on Sundowner saucers stating that they were Sundowner mugs and they looked good.
Photo courtesy of Cat -

I think I will go with this shape number as there is no other guide for this shape.
I would like to add the other cup shapes that go with Sundowner as there are several and we know what these shapes are - 3041, 3027, 3043, 1280.
The records for 3046 say -
3046 - Short straight rimmed cup - first made 14.4.78 and Sundowner was first released in 1978. Now that it's beside the 3044 in the Gallery it appears to be the same shape, but with a different handle !!
Yes I've definitely talked myself into this being the correct cup for the 3046 shape!

Good going Ev... I have ( in my notes) to check that type of cup with the "silk Dyer" and similar shapes to see if they vary..
shape 3034- fluted base mug with 3056 handle, how we said it was the "stacking mug" ( father, pop dad cup) as it fits the description.
shape 3040 - says fluted base coffee mug - that's whats throwing me to not be 100% sure.
What do you think? Also the fact that the ( father, pop dad cup) is stacking shape why not mention that on the description?
Secondly-
What does 3047 say? - Mug with (something) handle
cheers Janice

Yes the silk dyer cup is the same shape as the 3046.

3047 says - Mug with large handle ....

I think it will be a process of elimination that will work out the fluted and the stacking shapes. I'm not prepared to say for sure yet, but it does help having them all together above for reference.
The records show that there are at least 61 different earthenware shapes and we only have identified 33 of these, so a long way to go yet!

What I find strange is that, over the years of "TM trawling" you only ever see 3019, 3012 and coffee cans, so called tulip cup with the 3051 mugs thrown in the mix... so 'where" are all these 30 plus cup/mugs hiding???   

JanPots wrote:What I find strange is that, over the years of "TM trawling" you only ever see 3019, 3012 and coffee cans, so called tulip cup with the 3051 mugs thrown in the mix... so 'where" are all these 30 plus cup/mugs hiding???   

heheee a good amount of them are hiding in that cup montage above

3036 shape - the body of all fours cups are the same.. ( the 2nd one is 1 mm shorter than the rest)
The rim of the cups are the same, for the 1st two - and the same for the last two
The first two the handles are the same

All the bases are different - the arrows start from the edge to the base.
The first three have a defined "crisp" line - the last one is a soft line ( if that makes sense)

Item 5 in the montage. The Fleurette.
Am I right in thinking this looks like a 754 shape with an odd handle?
I have just made a study of my Fleurette cups and found what I took at the time to be a freak but on looking through the Collectors Guide I found a few the same shape in various patterns. Nothing there like this though.
The cup shape looks too old to have been painted in Fleurette, however in CL...Icon (p84) Val says "Fleurette was introduced in the late 1950s ..." and this IS a 1950s shape.
The earliest Fleurette cup I have looks like a very fine 781, also with a different handle.
At first I though it 1950s, then when I started thinking that the impressed NEW ZEALAND basemark tulips began maybe 1962 I reassessed it as 1960 or so.
Now I am confused again. I've got to think the one above would have proceeded my my one and been the first cup type dressed in Fleurette, or maybe it is just a freak.
(See also http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/u153 )

I think its a classed as a breakfast cup.. something I saw at the museum, a newspaper clipping i think? ie the shape of the handle is not a freak LOL

Janice, I see a breakfast cup in the gallery at 802. I know the museum picture is very small but neither cup shape nor handle shape look right to me for either unidentified, above, or my one.

Yes Janice is correct and gets the prize as the Fleurette is a Breakfast cup.



We are close to getting the shape number ...... we really are!  By Gum!

I can't argue with that! It is A breakfast cup.
I must have been looking at the wrong breakfast cup.
The drawing for breakfast cup 802 in the gallery is quite different. Same for 832.
Assuming that the museum pics in the gallery are correct you need a breakfast cup that is NOT 802 or 832.
As it is a different STYLE of cup from mine (which being a tulip is therefore a teacup) it may be contemporary.
Ev, where can i see a decent sized photo of this early Fleurette breakfast cup that is in the montage? OK. I found it here:
http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t3186-need-help-with-this-cup-please#11037
Ev, you wrote in that post that you were "leaning towards" it being 832, but there is no way that's the same handle as the drawing in the gallery. Actually the handle on the 832 looks very much like the handle on my oldest Fleurette cup which you can see here:
http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t3067p15-which-cups-go-with-what-saucers#16741
My cup is definitely a tulip or teacup shape and size, so it is not an 832 either.

Of course the Fleurette isn't an 832, but that is one of the few entries that actually say Breakfast Cup. There are heaps of cups that don't have photos/pics and the cup I have lined up is called a Fathers Cup and I can't see the number at the moment as I'm dashing around before leaving for work.

I came across an entry in the Decoration Advices that said

Fleurette 373 3016/4017 M & C and D I C from around circa 1968
and Silver Maple 811 had the same shapes and outlets.
This has confirmed my thoughts that the Fleurette cup in the photo above is this 3016 Breakfast Cup shape.  The 3016 was first made in 1965.

Bugger I've changed my mind, as until we find a 'Father's' cup I can't be sure, as it could be the Jumbo cup and saucer Wahhhhhhhhhhh   

See this thread .... and lucky that I looked at it ....
http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t3186-need-help-with-this-cup-please?highlight=fleurette

Ev.. 3049 - shape (special?) ribbed mug -- I saw a price listing for Bouquet deco no 899 saying Mug 3049 -- since bouquet is the old school rose type pattern, just having a guess here, but could your cup 4th along on the top row, be that one? The one that looks like a china cup...

It could well be, but we just need confirmation of the pattern Boutique Deco 899 and hopefully it will turn up one day. It is the only ribbed mug we have and I can't read the word before Ribbed ..... ???eal it looks like it should be a longer word than special...?

I'm back to thinking that the 3034 is the Father Pop mug with the Fluted Base and the 3036 Handle, now that I see the 3036 near that description in the Gallery.
Why do I hesitate? Janice ..... please help!

Something different to think about Ev, and Janice,

The Polar Bear mug could actually just be a Bear mug, which would qualify it as 
3057 Canadian mug, then the Papel would be 3064 Monster mug. They do share the same handle. Two items to the right of fatherpopdad above.

I said in showusyourmugs that (Polar) Bear was big, but Papel is even bigger, a real monster ... and I believe some of them had monsters on them too.

See also:
http://newzealandpottery.forumotion.net/t2158p75-show-us-your-mugs-crown-lynn-of-course#17516

Once again, your thoughts are helping my thoughts Jeremy!
The Monster mugs have two different handles and I meant to go back and check them out. These were made in March 1984 and October 1984 and we have a Papel timeframe somewhere..... let me look ....
hmmmm 1987 for the Calendar mug and closer to 1988 for the 1482.
Think I will go back to square one for now as I get so confuzzled if it doesn't all fall into place.
Janice may come to the rescue ........

Ev, I wouldn't get too concerned about Papel dates.
They may have used a pre-existing mug shape.

The dates needed are for the two cup numbers: 3057 and 3064.
As long as the shape predates the Papel contract we're OK.

I have a Papel (monster mug) and the Bear mug (Canadian) and their handles are a match, as per the two mugs illustrated at top of link, so if there a two monster mugs with different handles the 3064 will be the one illustrated top of topic.

Btw: I wouldn't have known that something called a Canadian mug existed if it hadn't appeared in the gallery window as I was tapping away at something else.
Writing in those descriptions was a real winner.


Oooooooh, I see a problem.
The other monster mug has a "California mug" handle"
In that case we just need to work out where my bear is from, California or Canada, and what the fruit is in the picture above. Are there bears in California?

Another ooooooooh! The mug that actually has monsters on (above) it looks very similar to the one with the bear and the one with the fruit. Some measurements would be mighty helpful. And were there monsters on the Papel mug shape above.

It doesn't help that they put monsters on different mug shapes, and likewise used different shapes for Papel.

I can't go along with the bear theory ...... and tried to avoid it, as there were holes in it like a sieve.
The Dorothy Thorpe range has [Yank] in brackets beside the description which I can understand from the 1960's. But the Canadian Mug is from 1981, the Japanese Mug is from 1982 and the California Mug is from 1984.
I can't find a connection to any of them .... blimin frustrating!

New subject.

Is the "Boston and Albany" mug above the same shape as the 3044 stacking rimmed mug in the gallery, apart from having a different handle?

I only have the B&A so can't compare them myself.

Yes I believe so, Boston is a 3046. The 3044 has a 3050 handle ....
it's like talking in robot isn't it?
It's a unique language only spoken by Crown Lynn workers in days gone by, or by Crown Lynn nutters today.

on another path... the horizontal white "pin strip" on colourglaze, mugs that match the rectangle tennis sets are a bigger mug again than most I have seen. I have one example and a second with "weight watchers" printed on it.. I will measure & photograph soon...

I'm back to thinking that the 3034 is the Father Pop mug with the Fluted Base and the 3036 Handle, now that I see the 3036 near that description in the Gallery. Why do I hesitate? Janice ..... please help!:

Hi Ev, 
It was this that threw me.. see below but since 3040 does not mention the 3056 handle maybe 3034 is the fatherpopdad shape.. shall we go with that?

shape 3034- fluted base mug with 3056 handle, how we said it was the "stacking mug" ( father, pop dad cup) as it fits the description. 
shape 3040 - says fluted base coffee mug - that's whats throwing me to not be 100% sure. 
What do you think? Also the fact that the ( father, pop dad cup) is stacking shape why not mention that on the description?