Are these ashtrays Crown Lynn? Yes they are the Shape 1331

I was gifted these today by Marcus as he thought that they were made by Crown Lynn.
The shape looks familiar and the decals really look familiar, but I can't place them.
Can anyone help please?



Cadillac

Those decals are on big CL mugs prob from 1980s. And that shape is CL i am pretty sure. I had one years ago in the dark Titian factory glazes. It broke and i threw it away..... no.comment.
 Edits. I was sure that ashtray was in our gallery but just at this moment i cant find it.

Thanks Val as this has bothered me all night.  Searching just now and I found one that Heather posted in 2008 in the Titian glazes [6th ashtray down] so yes they are definitely Crown Lynn and now we have to find the shape number for them !!!

https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t14-ashtrays?highlight=ashtray

One possibility is the 1331 as the only word I could read was large. I will check out the description with more recent info.

Thats the page that has the 'faint" writing -
I had thought of alsorts of words but can see Australasian" ( making the page a different colour helped to make the words a bit clearer   )
Edits to remove photo

The word after Australian looks quite like the word "ashtray" in the line below????? Or am i filled with the spirit of Xmas and not seeing straight.

Correct Val and we have that 1332 Round 6 sided ashtray in the Gallery

I've looked everywhere and don't have a pic of the original record for that page with the 1331  ... boohoo
But I checked the weight record and it is bigger than the than the 1332 and as I have both I can guarantee that it is bigger at 200mm x 192mm.  Also Val mentioned that the decals were used in the 1980's so it seems to fit perfectly.  Ok folks I am winging it on my gut feeling that it is correct and is a 1331 Large Australian Ashtray .... crikey it has such an odd title !!

Well it came to pass that this ashtray is in the Titian negatives.
Crown Lynn probably adopted this shape and called it their own ..... Huh?
I had better add it to the Titian Gallery as well I guess .....

I think the dates you gave me for the photos overlap with the Crown Lynn period.

I actually have no idea whether Titian was still selling as Titian (other than Titianware) once Crown Lynn became majority owners.

Question I'm getting to is: does the existence of these negs necessarily indicate that wares sold as CL were also marketed as Titian?

I don't think they overlap Jeremy.
Crown Lynn didn't start making anything at the Titian factory until 1970 according to the records.  Cameron Brown only stayed for around a year and was making from his garage and then started Orzel by 1972.  Gail Henry shows a photo of many of the negative shapes from 1966 to 1969, so other than the shapes that Crown Lynn continued to make all of the negatives are Titian.  It's a terrible twisted story that is hard to unravel with takeovers and shapes adopted Gahhhhh, but I feel confident about it all now.

Titian never sold anything as Titianware, but Crown Lynn did and started using that brand name well after the takeover.

Perhaps these ashtrays are simply Titian and have nothing to do with Crown Lynn?

Ok so while looking for the Maori ashtray that Paipo posted on the Portage Museum site I found that they have this ashtray in the mould form ...

http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/account/3384/object/489665