Sugar bowl numbers investigation !! 732, 733, 776, 760.

Since the Portage Ceramic Trust put their collection online, I noticed that the sugar bowls 732 and 733 didn't match the ones that we have in the Gallery.  I have been waiting to find where they got their info from and I came across it this week.
Now I have to work backwards to see where we got our numbers from.

732 from the Portage Museum and one has a sticker on it with the number ...

http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/esearch/object?a=3384&q=732

This is what we have in the Gallery for 732 ...
Photo removed

733 from the Portage Museum Collection ..

http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/esearch/object?a=3384&q=733

733 from our Gallery ...
Photo removed

So these are very different shapes and seem to somewhat mixed up.  I'm rather busy today, so I will add to this when I get time to start checking things out.

This is the reference that I found that I have been waiting for ..
Photo removed

and the little 846 mustard liner in the fore ground..... so these are all vitrified eh?
I really need to go to the musuem and have as look through stuff :O)

Yes these are all vitrified and perhaps that is where I have gone wrong. I was so pleased to see the little 846 and there are other shapes that I need to check out too. Also there is another side to the photo.
Another thought is that they have reused some of the numbers in a quirky time when the 700's were all over the place. How does one tell if they are vitrified from the handwritten records, well one doesn't do they! We find out as we go along.
I still have a long way to go with the records Janice and anything of interest I post on the site.

Ev, sorry to distract from sugar bowls but it looks to me like the 3610 is sitting on a 743 from the labels.

This is our first indication of what a 743 looks like.

Correct Jeremy and there are others that I want to look at as well.

Here is the other side of the photo ...
Photo removed

Right getting back to this puzzle the handwritten records say ....

732 Sugar Bowl as 776
733 Sugar Bowl as 760
760 just says Sugar Basin
776 doesn't have a description
I have a 776 earthenware sugar bowl that has the number on the base and it is the same shape as the 776 and 732 that we have in the Gallery.

Somewhere in the mix is earthenware and vitrified ware, but there is no indication which is which.  There are however shape numbers for the Public Hospital vitrified shapes that include a 732 Sugar.  More to come ....

Ev,
The 760 and 776 will be early shapes likely dating from Ambrico days (well the 776 at least). The 776 is part of a complete coffee set numbering from 773 to 777. The demitasse cup and saucer definitely date from Ambrico.

The group of vitrified items around 732 and 733 in the gallery look like re-used numbers. Some are dated.

The 732 and 733 vitrified sugar bowl shapes will thus be later, likely made from the same moulds or jigs as the 760 and 776, with the numbers re-used from some obsolete, unknown earlier shapes, probably not even sugar bowls.

Hopefully backstamps will confirm this. If you see vit bowls in these shapes with 48-55 stamps then clearly I am wrong but I won't be holding my breath.

Like you Jeremy I'm feeling that there may be some reused numbers as the records clash with these sugar bowls.  Crown Lynn made these shapes long after it was known as Ambrico.  I would really like to see the clear big picture regarding these sugars and their correct numbers and don't want to fob this off, but will keep digging until I get some satisfactory answers.

These are from a Crown Lynn poster and now for the first time I see the 760 as the same shape as the Portage 733 / 760 which makes me wonder what the more dainty sugar bowl shape will be.  Notice that I have added the hospital sugar shape for this to the Gallery which wasn't made until 1978 and would have a four digit number, so that may be confusing the issue as well !!!!  Do we have one of these sugars on the site?  
The 776 / 733 appears to match the ones in our Gallery.
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These are the three sugar bowls in question and I've often wondered where the large one on the left fitted in.  The measurements for it agree with the Portage 733 which is the vitrified version of the 760.  The middle sugar is the same shape as a 776 that I have.  So I'm very pleased with the progress that is being made as I knew something was amiss
Though now there is a new dilemma as the darling little sugar on the right is numberless although the Portage have the number as 732   Also we need to find the 760 earthenware sugar !!  Don't know if I've seen one either..... have you Janice?



Let me introduce you to the 733/760 Sugar Bowl ... 125mm x 62mm

This photo shows the 3632 Hospital Sugar and the records say that this was the 732 shape.  I have added mrnarna's hospital sugar photo to the Gallery as this is where it goes.  By doing that I am also agreeing that this is the 732 shape which is also the 776.  So theoretically I am agreeing that the 776 shape was reused.  While checking this out I saw that the little 846 Mustard Liner became the four digit 3634 so I added it too
Photo removed

I still have 3 more photo references to double check these findings with, so there will be more to come!  Plus I have yet to add the reused shapes 776/732 to the gallery !!!!!

This post has been moved at Ev's suggestion:

https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t6663-cl-sugar-bowl-with-no-number#26391

Not sure Jeremy and really that question should be in a new topic so that it can be addressed.

Another photo from the records showing the earthenware 776 Sugar Bowl
Photo removed

This photo shows the vitrified 732 sugar bowl shape
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So I'm convinced now that these two shapes have been reissued with numbers that had previously been used.
I will change the shapes in the Galleries accordingly.  Bravo Well Done!!
Still waiting for the Earthenware shape 760 for the Gallery, in the meantime I will use the 733 shape which is the same, but vitrified.

How fortuitous that Lindsay155 got a Rainbow British Sugar to me that happens to be a Shape 760 E/W Sugar.  It is slightly taller than the Vitrified 733 which wasn't very obvious until I took a photo of them together.  This will be from the late 1950's early 1960's era. Thank you Lindsay and Marie.





and the blurry backstamp and now I think that Rainbow British comes in all of the colours of a Rainbow and I need to check what colours we have