Is this Crown Lynn or Titian? Answer ... it is Crown Lynn

The question was asked on another site that I go to.....  

It's a bit of a tricky question because Titian made Crown Lynn under Crown Lynn ownership as well as there being similar products made by both companies.

The impressed "Made in New Zealand" is certainly indicative of Crown Lynn. The number, 1317, is part of a Crown Lynn series but when it was made could determine where it was made.

Crown Lynn became the major shareholder in Titian Potteries (1965) Ltd at Takanini by 1967. It was sold "eventually" to one of its employees. The dates Gail Henry gives are very vague. TDS has a Brown descendent as a member so maybe they could give more detail? I think the Henry/Lambert books might say what type of Crown Lynn products Titian made but I haven't found it yet.

So are you saying that it could be a Titian mug ...
made under the Crown Lynn umbrella name??
Tricky.... I guess you could say either and still be right heheeeee
The dark honey glaze looks more Titian to me .... but the design could be Crown Lynn?

I know this old guy who spent $300 on mugs at the Crown Lynn factory in one day.
I think he said that they were selling for $1 each and they were samples made from each different mug ever made there. I must ask him if I can visit and take a look at his collection.
He has been collecting for years.......

To me the glaze has the looks of the 1980s so probably missed Titian's Crown Lynn era. I don't know anything about Titian glazes as I've largely ignored the company.

I think the number of different Crown Lynn cups and mugs is around 2000 but I'm not sure what coffee cans are categorised as - both or neither?

1317 looks to be a "Lyre Mug" made by Titian in 1979.

It is in the catalogue sheets I got (handwritten) from the museum.

Brilliant Heather

Now was Titian owned by Crown Lynn in 1979?
Was that record with the Crown Lynn records?

It's ok ..... I found the answer on page 158 in Val Monk's book.....

Made in New Zealand (plus four-digit number)
This example was made at Titian Potteries after it was bought out by
Crown Lynn. 1964 to 1989

There you go then - though that was a longer period than I thought...

Crown Lynn closed in 1989 ......
Maybe that is a typo ???
Does anybody know what year Titian Potteries was sold by Crown Lynn?
Heather's notes may be helpful ~_~

The company Crown Lynn owned was Titian Pottery (1965) Ltd. On the 6th of April 1987 a company named Titian Pottery (1987) Ltd was registered. This company was removed from the register on the 24th of April 1991. Its registered office was in Takanini so presumably the non-Ceramco version of the company?

Ceramco list Titian Pottery (1965) Ltd as one of the companies it owns in a publication in 1979 so my guess is somewhere between 1979 and 1987 would have been when it sold the business.

Well that narrows it down a bit Tony

I saw earlier where Heather put the year of production as 1964 beside a Crown Lynn/Titian piece ....
must find it again.

The mug was produced at Titian using a Crown Lynn made & numbered mould.
Soon after the death of the Titian factory manager Fred Hoffman,the business was sold.The purchaser was a long serving member of the Titian staff. That would have been around 1987.

Rufus, I met a man called Dennis at the Crown Lynn Exhibition in Wellington ... if he told me his last name, I can't recall it. He said that he worked as a Crown Lynn agent in Canada and also that he and Fred Hoffman bought Titian off Ceramco around 1982. He was adamant that the honey glazed coffee mugs that were in the Exhibition were not Crown Lynn, but were ones that were made when he and Fred owned the company .....? Any thoughts Rufus?

Hi Ev,
You may be correct over the ownership of Titian by Fred & Dennis. Was it a partial ownership?
I was under the impression Ceramco owned it from approx 1967-87 but must be wrong.My apologies to the forum for being misleading.
I am more sure of my ground regarding the mugs illustrated in the opening panel of this discussion.They are Crown Lynn/Titian numbered & the glaze is not honey.