Rose Dawn (crimp, crimped-edge) shapes 818

I splashed out.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Pottery-glass/Porcelain-pottery/Crown-Lynn/Cups-saucers/auction-856290354.htm

I'll post a pic when I get it.

I'm pretty sure I didn't already have a 753, apart from the "Ambrico" (straw) one, but it is the saucer I really thought worth buying.

I don't think they belong together as they have different marks. I'll be able to compare the glazes better when they arrive.

Jim has some pieces with the little crimps or folds or whathaveyou at the edges like this but I don't recall seeing a saucer.

Any idea on numbers?

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15/3/15

The seller advises me that they are not a matched pair.

Here's the "duo".

Note the different colour and texture of the pinks.


The 753 right with my similar Ambrico or early CL cup left.


The (for want of a better name) crimp-edged saucer.
There are four "crimp" details evenly spaced around the edge.

same size as an 805 saucer

You can see the matched crimp-edge cup shape at Portage:
http://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/account/3384/object/489740/Cup#prettyPhoto

The cup has four "folds" or hollows in its body and additional detailing at top of handle.

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My blue Rainbow British saucer is the correct shape and age for the 753, but wrong stamp and colour.

How lucky am I to receive this cup and saucer from Lindsay155 plus 5 big boxes of Crown Lynn crockery

The cup is fascinating with it's four indents that match up to the blips on the saucer.  Even more fascinating is the gold ring just inside the cup and also near the base of the cup.  The glaze is such a pretty mottled pink.  The indents are hard to see in the photographs, as is the extra 'blip' at the top of the handle.





Base of the cup:


Base of the saucer:

I really think that I've found the shape number for this cup !!!
This ebay link to Johnson Bros England Rose Dawn looks the same as Crown Lynn's Grey Dawn.  We have a cup, fancy jug, teapot and jug that have this name in the records.  Please tell me that I am right

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Pottery-/27/i.html?_sac=1&_jsoff=1&_nkw=johnson+brothers+dawn&_sop=1

Here is a link to the Gallery with the Rose Dawn shapes 813, 814, 818, 820 and there is plenty of room for other shapes like saucers and bowls etc
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/gallery/Crown-Lynn-Shapes-Catalogue-01-881/800-to-881/800-to-881-cat_c13.htm

Ev, I did consider that Jim's crimped ware was Rose Dawn but got stuck on the numbers being in the 800s and all those around being 1962-ish when their backstamps are 1948-55, that and the flowers on the cup and plate not being roses. (Bowl and spoon, recently posted, DO have roses.) Jim's:

https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t6203-more-cl-crimped-shapes-from-jim-spoon#24238

I see now that my saucer and your duo do have stamps that would work for 1962-ish. This new information looks pretty convincing for ours, but I still wonder about Jim's, which by my reckoning should all have 700s numbers.

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10/2/16
Crimped trio (as seen on tm).

Finally I have a crimped cup of my own, with saucer and B&B to match.

same gold crown and star stamp as Ev's duo, B&B is 175mm diameter

All these shapes have been seen previously including Thelma's three side plates as seen here:
https://www.newzealandpottery.net/t6991-crimped-edge-plates#27528
.

When I saw these English pieces of crockery that look like Rose Dawn it convinced me that they are the shapes that we are looking for.
The Jug cinched the idea as it matches the Shape 813 and now we have to find one that was made by Crown Lynn





The flatware will have numbers around these numbers, but we have no ideas yet.
I will put the Shape 818 Rose Dawn cup into the Gallery now.

Nice find Ev.
The maker?

We have on the site: cup, saucer, B&B, and maybe some larger plates (can't remember but will check). The known existence of gravy jug suggests also a gravy saucer, and teapot suggests also creamer and sugar bowl (may have that from Jim). This then further suggests the existence of a complete dinner set of shapes, and the numbers of the museum pics suggest that the whole set occupied a block in the 800s, prior to replacement shapes 812, 816, and 821 to 824.

Backstamps date from as early as 48-55, with some pieces stamped crown and star indicating production continuing after 1955, but number reuse suggests obsolescence prior to 1962.

(I have recently added a yellow duo with 48-55 backstamp to my Rose Dawn collection. Unfortunately no B&B with those.)

Ev, can you remind us of the origin of those museum drawings please.
.

The maker of that ware escapes me as I took the photos several weeks ago now.
I will check it out next time I'm there. Perhaps Crown Devon? Definitely English.

Yes I agree that there will be a whole dinner set in these shapes. We just haven't found them all yet.

The origin of the Museum Crown Lynn drawings and hand written records were given to the Museum in 1984 by permission of the Manager C. Harvey and the Managing Director Tom Clark. They are the same ones that were given to all of the Cadets when they started training and Bruce Yallop still has his and showed them to me.

Thanks a Ev.

We are so lucky that the drawings of shapes that became obsolete by the early 1960s survived until 1984. It leads me to think that the crimped wares were still being made after the fire that took out the early records in the mid-fifties.

Just a thought, I have seen those cup handles on English pottery too but just where escapes me atm.

Jeremy I would like to add that not all of the drawings have come from that source. Through countless hours of research they have also come from Modellers records, Sparrow Industries photos, catalogues, displays and handwritten records, plus online resources. This is ongoing as we still have many more shapes to find.
I have heard mention of records being destroyed by fires here there and everywhere, but haven't researched and recorded what was lost, where in the factory the fires were and when. One day when I have nothing better to do perhaps I will do this as these fires are bandied about like everyone knows all about it except me.

I stopped by the place where I had seen these pieces today and they had all gone .... to new homes.  Not one piece was left !!

PS. We have lots of records for shapes pre 1956, so they can't all have gone up in smoke. A big collector from the South Island said that all of the records had been destroyed in a fire, but didn't say when, what or where.

English teapot and part set in the Rose Dawn shapes at Whangarei Salvation Army store.


I had the iPad on my travels today so I was able to get the photo I've been meaning to take for a week or more, but neglected to note the English maker's name on this visit. Looks like I need to take a better pic too: I didn't notice how distracting the reflections are.

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26/11/19
Pareek by Johnson Bros.
.

Two Crown Lynn Rose Dawn plates were on Trade Me and they have the old 1948 - 1955 stamp on them. Pink and green.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/pottery-glass/porcelain-pottery/crown-lynn/plates-platters/listing/3885660543?cc=61&pid=1873837846&hbc=1&ct=title-link&tm=email&et=61&mt=B51A7F86-D9E5-4B82-91DA-C48DA33510A0&bof=TEx4EvHh