demitasse

Your other theory could still work Ev, although it seems counter-intuitive.

Vit = 773 cup, 734 saucer
E/W = 774 saucer, 859 cup

It just doesn't FEEL right.
The numbers are all over the place.

I must track down one of the different wee cups, the mini-fatbottom.
I'm not imagining things here am I, Ev: there is such a cup isn't there?

Does your knowledge of backstamp dates tell you that the early DB cup (photo above) should be a three digit?

One other thing I wonder about, as I don't know when three digit numbering started.
As far as I know the Paris cups have no number, and I think the earliest heavy cup (pre the 700s) didn't. Three of my clear glaze white E/W demitasse cups have no backstamps (although this may simply be because the are too small for a 1948-55 stamp) and one has a circle stamp giving it a date of 1943 to 1950.

Would the early E/W demitasse cups definitely have had a number or were they just known to all as "coffee cups"?

Three digit shape numbers were being used on triple glazed vases very early.  They sometimes have the shape number and fraction numbers.
The four digit shapes began in early 1964 and the fat frumpy handle shows up in that 1968 advert for the new vitrified ware shapes that is on Val Monk's blog.
I will take the demi shapes out of the gallery for now, as we are none the wiser at this stage.
Paris ware was first made in the Ambrico days.
Do you mean the small South Pacific cups? Like the IGA cup and saucer?

Yes, I think so. I guess the IGA were E/W so maybe Kat's blue demi is the one for the Blue Tango saucers. I'm pretty sure that it will turn out to be vit but we have not seen a stamp for it yet.

I thought the ones in the gallery were pretty safe.
Just the earlier ones causing trouble.

There were changes to the shape of Crown Lynn demitasse saucers over the years and with the arrival on my latest today I am starting to make some sense of it.

Four different demitasse saucer shapes.
(This is a lousy photo and one day when there is enough light I will replace it.)
1 E/W early 2 vit early
3 E/W later 4 vit later

As you can see from the photo earthenware (1) and vitrified (2) demitasse (coffee cup) saucers started out the same shape. The e/w is wider, the vit thicker. The same applies to the cups.

Using backstamps for dating we see the vit saucer changes some time after 1955 (48-55 stamp), but before 1962 (star on vit stamp replaced with numbers by 1962 at latest). Note the addition of a rolled edge. The new shape is a couple of mm wider too.

The later earthenware saucer is the same coupe shape as an 805, just smaller. A teal e/w duo marked South Pacific on trademe has a minifatbum cup on an early shaped saucer. Supposing the earthenware saucers changed at the same time that would date this duo, and thus the South Pacific mark, 1955 or early. No guarantees though that both earthenware and vitrified saucers changed at the same time.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Pottery-glass/auction-739225030.htm

One result of the shape change is that later saucers, earthenware and vitrified, have the same diameter. (E/W got smaller, vit got bigger.)

I think the change of shape in the vitrified cups to the chunky handle and the phasing out of 773 shaped earthenware cups to be completely replaced by the minifatbum (859?) may have come later than the saucer change. Just a hunch. I'll keep working on this.

My latest vit duo has the later saucer and early cup shapes, but both pieces have the single star vit stamp. Match or mismatch? I just don't know.

7/6/14 notes to me.
Curiously I have just noticed shape 745 "small hotel cup vit" which is a lot closer to the 734 hotel saucer vit, which is the vit demi-saucer. It could of course belong to the 743 hotel saucer, just two numbers away. I haven't checked the numbers for an update on vit demitasse yet, but I'm just wondering if mabe the 773 has been misrepresented in the various notes at vit and is in fact the E/W, which would make sense considering the 774 is the E/W demi-saucer.

x2

I was trying to figure out what the 745 small hotel cup would look like.
Then I noticed the different handles as mentioned above, on the 773. Which is confusing.

The rounder handle like on these 2 looks to be very old compare to the others .



Anyways......
Small coffee cups can be either the demitasse or fat bum shape but smaller.

So would the 745 be a vitrified version of the fat bum as we don't seem to have one? Or the other shape.

Any thoughts anyone... in the fat bum demitasse shape I have grey. pink. Plum. And yellow none that feel vitrified.
I have grouped the same shapes  together so you can see what I mean.

Janice, I believe that the e/w and vit demis were made with the same mould, which is why originally there appears to have been only one shape number.

Interesting observation re the earthenware handles, something I had not noticed.

The numbers got mucked around when the new shapes appeared, the vit demi with the robust handle and the 859 cup, and new saucers too. At that time we were well into number reuse so things got a bit separated.

We still have at least one cup shape looking for a number, the Carlton cup shape with the pointy handle.

Possibly more to say but mst go.